In this episode of the Catholic Leaders Podcast, Kim Smolik and Kerry Alys Robinson sit down with Sister Mary Haddad, RSM, president and CEO of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. Sister Mary shares the story of her early journey into leadership, beginning when she was called to serve as a Catholic school principal at just 22 years old. The conversation explores how discernment, relationship, and a willingness to step forward can shape a life of meaningful service and lived faith. Sister Mary discusses the shared early history of Catholic ministries in the United States and how Catholic ministries have successfully continued to work together, including through the collaborative and innovative Healthy Housing Initiative. She also reflects on the charism of mercy, what drew her to the Sisters of Mercy, and how her leadership is strengthened by synodal listening and decisionmaking rooted in the impact on the poor and marginalized. To Sister Mary, the distinction between service and Catholic ministry is the call to act with deeply rooted faith, rather than simply to provide a service. Catholic ministry is also rooted in relationships: accompanying people in their most vulnerable moments and recognizing the interconnectedness of physical, spiritual, and emotional health. The episode concludes with Sister Mary’s reflections on caring for caregivers, her advice for those discerning their career paths and leadership roles, and the women who shaped her own life of service, particularly her mother and Catherine McAuley, founder of the Sisters of Mercy.
What does it mean to answer the call to lead, even if you don’t feel prepared or experienced?
Sister Mary Haddad offers her powerful perspective on leadership as something we don’t always seek out but, in her case, “leadership found me.” Her early response to step into a leadership role ultimately led to a vocation as a Sister of Mercy and lifelong service to Catholic ministry in its many forms.
In conversation with Kim Smolik and Kerry Alys Robinson, Sister Mary explores the relationship between action and contemplation, explaining how discernment requires responsiveness but also willingness to make space for prayer and reflection.
For emerging leaders, the conversation offers simple but compelling advice: seek out the counsel of people you trust, be open to failure, and have courage to step outside of your comfort zone and explore a new path.
Sr. Mary Haddad, a member of the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, serves as the 10th president and chief executive officer of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. Sr. Mary leads CHA's mission to support and advance the health ministry of the Catholic Church across the United States, representing the nation's largest group of nonprofit healthcare providers.
Earlier in her career, she served in congregational leadership for the Sisters of Mercy in St. Louis and held roles in healthcare, social services, and education, including international service in Belize and Trinidad and Tobago.
She has been awarded honorary doctoral degrees from Misericordia University and St. Louis University in recognition of her leadership and service in Catholic healthcare.
Sr. Mary serves on several boards and advisory bodies, including the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development.
Education: MBA in healthcare from the University of St. Thomas (St. Paul, Minn.) | MSW from Saint Louis University | Bachelor of Science in education from Southern Illinois University Carbondale | Honorary doctoral degrees from Misericordia University and St. Louis University in recognition of her leadership and service in Catholic healthcare | Member of Alpha Sigma Nu, the honor society of Jesuit colleges and universities
More Resources
Love this episode? Leave us a review and share it with someone who would love to hear from Anne about her meaningful career and her message of resilience and hope.
Also, be sure to follow Catholic Charities USA on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
Kim Smolik (KS)
Kerry, it's so good to see you. And I feel a little bit spoiled because I just got to see you in person in Minnesota. Thank you for making the visit.
Kerry Alys Robinson (KAR)
I loved our time together. It was just so luxurious to spend an entire evening, with a fabulous meal in the North Loop, and to just be treated to a glimpse of your hometown. I was especially delighted to have the excuse to see you occasioned by a regional convening that Catholic Charities USA is hosting all over the country now, to gather CEOs of Catholic Charities agencies and their development teams around the theme of funding for the future.
It is another example of how we at the national office can set the stage for really dynamic, inspiring conversation between the agencies and so that we can share a little bit about how we go about the important ministry of fundraising. But all the better, Kim, that you were there and I got to see you in person.
KS
You know, Kerry, what you're doing with these regional networks, with Catholic Charities is a really nice set up to talk about our interview with Sister Mary Haddad, because of the strategic leadership and vision that she brings to the work of Catholic Health Association.
This conversation we had was so uplifting, and I think something leaders will really appreciate hearing, sort of, how she thinks and how she's able to help such a massive organizational system of all these nonprofit health care Catholic systems work, and to support them.
KAR
It really is extraordinary when you think that she embodies, in one person, the full breadth and depth of these important Catholic apostolates and ministries. Obviously, she is representing Catholic health care, but she has a long tradition in Catholic education and in Catholic social services, and she sees, through her own vocation, the intersection and connection of each of those around upholding human dignity. It's really a beautiful — she's a beautiful example of this.
KS
And Kerry, she started so young. Her first leadership position was at age 22, as she told us, as a principal of a Catholic school, which is just incredible to realize.
And what I loved about that story was how she came to that position, and we’ll save the story for her to tell it, but I think for me, what captured my heart, really, was how others believed in her and called her forward, and that's the strength that she drew on in order to step into that leadership position.
KAR
I think our listeners are going to love this conversation.
KS
Sister Mary, it is so good to see you and to have you with us today on the Catholic Leaders Podcast. Thank you for joining us.
Sr. Mary Haddad, RSM (SMH)
Thank you, Kim and Kerry, it's a pleasure to be with both of you.
KS
We love the opportunity to talk to leaders in the Catholic Church, particularly starting with, your your beginnings.
And it's such a pleasure to learn about the many things that you have done, leading up to your role at the Catholic Health Association. And we have a lot of young listeners, young Catholic leaders, and they are making decisions about their career and their service and navigating the landscape of working in the Catholic Church. And so one of the things we noticed about your background is that you found leadership early. Before entering the Sisters of Mercy, you were a school principal.
And is it correct that you did that at age 22?
SMK
That is that is correct. And let me let me rephrase that. I didn't find leadership. It found me. So that's that's exactly what happened when I assumed that role.
KS
And so that's what I'd love to hear a little bit about, is what helped you say yes to that invitation of leadership.
And once you were in it, what did you lean on for support at such a young age?
SMH
Yeah. It really is a remarkable story in that, I had just finished, my undergrad and had no intention of looking at going into education, per se. My interest was in physiology of exercise and athletic training. I had a scholarship in field hockey, and so I was going in that direction after I came back after graduation and decided, do I want to get a Masters what do I want to do?
And so I thought, let me just do some substitute teaching for a year and figure this out. And it was at that time that I was called to do a stint in the Catholic school, the grade school that I actually attended, and, they needed someone to teach fifth and sixth grade. So I did that in the end of the period, the three-month term that I was there, the pastor approached me and the principal offering me the job as principal.
And of course, my, first response was, I'm not qualified to do this. And, you know, this is a staunch German priest. He's like, you know, this is my parish. I can do what I want, and I want you because I said, you need to go to the board. You need to do this. Well, don't tell father what he needs to do.
He determines what he needs to do. And honestly, I saw it. If they think I can do this, why not? And let's let's get into it. And quite honestly, it was, a small school, and, it was in my hometown, so I knew many of the people. I had actually, graduated with the brothers and sisters of many of the kids in the school.
So I knew them well. And during that three-year period, it was an opportunity for me to really, take on, new challenges and learn a lot about myself and what I could do, where I would lean on for assistance and how to seek that out. And at that time, there were only it was a, school that was sponsored by the Sisters of Mercy.
But there were only a couple of retired sisters there at the time, so I interfaced with them. But it was primarily lay-lead, educational institution. So I, I laugh at this because thinking about what I did then, not only was I principal, but I also taught and there were two grades in a classroom. So if you can imagine that scenario.
But, had a lot of energy, you know, as a younger person and absolutely loved what I was doing. And it was during that time that I actually started discernment for religious life as a Sister of Mercy. So it was, you might say, it was my springboard, both, in terms of being in that religious grounded organization as well as the opportunity to learn about myself during that time.
KS
I mean, a couple of things stand out to me. One, here is someone who called you forward, right. And that's such an important thing for us to recognize as leaders is how important it is to call other young people forward to see what they're capable of, and to help them step a little bit out of their comfort zone and support them on the way.
So I just that's just noteworthy to me. And I wonder too, how your how you're taking that with you. And the other thing that stands out, to me is what you said almost in passing, which was, well, I wanted to figure out what to do. So I decided to take a year just to do some substitute teaching to figure it out, which to me is a level of maturity about needing space for discernment, which then led you into an experience that allowed for more of that.
What you can talk a little bit about what made that sort of early understanding of discernment possible for you, and then how that's developed in your life. And that led you to the Mercy sisters.
SMH
Yeah. Beautiful reflection back to me on that, Kim. I do think it is. And let me say, first go back to your comment about call.
It was you know, listening to the call, but it's also our ability to respond to the call. And I think often what happens that, it's in the response, really, that that discernment takes place. And, you know, I think for myself, I'm the type of person that always ventured out, for new experiences and new opportunities.
I love life, I love people, and, you know, I think this was part of that discernment for me, thinking it's got to be a broader world. I grew up in a small town, was pretty secluded, you know, protected, and going to college opened my eyes and opened my mind to a lot of different things. And I think that that experience said, how do we engage life?
Right? How do we approach life in such a way that we are able to grasp the uniqueness of those life experiences, as well as how we were able to serve within that. It's a mutuality there. And so I've always been a firm believer of, you know, taking the time to step back and look at the bigger picture.
And, I know I could say back to many of my friends who I went to grade school and high school with, you could see the rote experiences of what they did, and it was pretty typical, right? You went to college, got a job, or you got married and there wasn't this quest for a larger sense of who we are as a community.
And that was always instilled in me at an early age. And I lived out of that, and I still continue to do that.
KAR
Your love of people and the charism of mercy seem so integrated and important in your vocation story. What drew you to the Mercy Sisters? And tell us a little bit about that discernment.
SMH
What's interesting, Kerry, I, entered in 1984, so you can do the math to know how long I've been a Sister of Mercy. But the year I entered, there were seven of us, and we were considered a bumper crop because, you know, there weren't many entering at that time. And, some of the girls that entered then had talked about “convent hopping,” where they would go to these vocation weekends at different orders and just to get a flavor for the charism, the spirit, whether or not it was a good fit.
I never did that. I was taught by the Sisters of Mercy. My mother was taught by the Sisters of Mercy. I think we were indoctrinated into this culture, and I recognized early on, an attraction to the spirit of those women in, in terms of, you know, very practical. They saw a need and they met it, you know, they went after it.
Someone, someone was joking with me one time, a sister of Saint Joseph who had worked with us and and I said, what's the, what do you see the difference between the two charisms? She paused for a moment and she said, well, I would say that the Saint Josephs contemplate their way to action. The Mercies act their way to contemplation.
And so that's pretty truthful, that we’re very responsive. And, the foundress of our community, Catherine McAuley, is unique in that she started the House of Mercy before she was ever a sister. And this was a house where she used her inheritance to create the center for women and children in need. And Catherine always had the unique ability to connect people of means and people of need.
And I think that's also an attraction for me. How do we make those links for others? And, I often think about our approach to people who experience poverty. It's not a fault of their own. It's because of circumstances, and our role is to help make those connections for them, to lift them out of poverty and, you know, we look at charity care and, you know, Catholic Charities, certainly — I worked at Catholic Charities here in Saint Louis — of great value. But we recognize that it's not just providing a service and an act of kindness. We also have to couple that with how do we change the systems that oppress people and keep them at a level of, you know, poverty? And so I saw that in the Sisters of Mercy and Catherine McAuley, the ability to look at how we provide care and compassion and couple that with the need for systemic change and advocacy.
So that has been an attraction of mine early on in, in the congregation. And just it was a fit.
KAR
We speak a lot about, is justice charitable, is charity just? And from a Catholic sensitivity, you need both all of the time. I often remark that one of the distinguishing features of Catholic Charities work is not just the humanitarian relief and aid that is provided, it is also the merciful way in which the encounter happens and the call for justice.
Why is it that a five year old can go to bed hungry in the richest nation of the world? Thank you so much for answering the call. Kim and I both owe a huge debt of gratitude to the Mercy Sisters for many, many reasons. My own spiritual director and professor, an advisor and friend is Sister Margaret Farley.
And I remember her saying — she is a formidable intellect, which so many Mercy sisters have — and in one of her classes, I just remember her telling us at the end of our lives, perhaps the only question God will ask is, were you merciful? I have never forgotten that. And I see how that charism of mercy is lived out every day all over the world by Mercy Sisters and those of us like Kim and myself, who try to emulate you.
SMH
Oh, that's beautiful, that's beautiful. Margaret Farley is a phenomenal leader in the community and had great impact on our chapters. I remember as a young sister just in awe of listening to her come to the mic and and share her wisdom.
So, thanks for that memory.
KS
Sister Mary, you are a busy person, I imagine. You know, as a lot of things being asked of you all of the time. And the response responses that you and your organization need to make. And one of the things that, going back to what you said about your early years and your discernment, was that there was a sense that you needed to take space to make solid discernment decisions.
There was a there was both an action, but also a slowing down like a balance, as you mentioned, between those two things. As a leader, how do you hold that when you're having to make really consequential decisions about directions that you're going and knowing that things are moving quickly? How do you hold the steadiness along with the responsiveness?
SMH
You know, I first let me say that, I recognize that throughout Catholic health care, our members have adopted an ethical discernment process. And it is the very thing that we as religious women grew up with. You know, how we discern ministry, how we discern God's continual call in our lives. And, our members have really adapted a process such as that in making decisions, whether it be the sale of a hospital, you know, a joint venture, working with others that are unique to Catholic health care.
And they go through this process and it really is, it's done within a prayerful environment, and it's done by recognizing, you know, taking the time, as you know, you had said, Kim, is so important, the space. But it also looks at how the decisions we make will have an impact on others. And taking the time to really think of that more broadly.
I remember, years ago when I was a younger sister, and we would be in chapter and maybe a 5- or 6- day meeting where the sisters would gather and set direction. And there was a huge banner in the chapel and it said, how will our decisions impact those who are poor and marginalized? So it was literally in our face every day.
And so when we were thinking about decisions for our future and where we would go, that was first and foremost, you know, before us. And that is really the discerning question, right? What impact will these decisions that health care, you know, we're currently making, the impact it will have on our employees, the impact it will have on the people we serve and the broader community?
And that has become standard operations for those of us in Catholic health care and entering into those discernment processes. And I also think it's important, I say this to the team here all the time, you know, we can't be held captive by the tyranny of the urgent, because we would be chasing our tails daily, and we really need to step back and say, all right, you know what's our purpose here?
What are we trying to do? What are we called to do? What's our responsibility? What's ours to do? That's the other thing. You know, we can't be all things to all people. We have to be clear about that. And then finding the space to kind of clear out all the noise and really pray about it and, and look and reflect on all aspects of the decision and the impact it will have.
KS
A couple of years ago, Kerry — or I had the pleasure — and Kerry was still working with us at that time at Leadership Roundtable — where we held a national summit that was focused on living synodal leadership and a number of your wonderful leaders in your organization were present and contributed quite a bit to that gathering.
And one of the takeaways was that the Catholic Health Association was bringing this form of discernment and inclusion and conversation of synodal conversations across the Catholic Health Association network. And I just I just want to highlight that, because what you're saying right now is not just sitting in the boardroom or with your leadership team, but a way of leading that you're making available widely and saying, we can practice this level of discernment, inclusion, across the work that we do, not just in the boardroom.
How is that living out for you?
SMH
So I, a couple of years ago, we actually incorporated into our National Assembly where our members came. And so we had our staff guiding them through a process around that. And it was phenomenal. And so what it's — it's starting to catch on, if you will. Where other groups are looking at how do we incorporate this in board retreats and sponsor retreats, working with others within the organization? We had an assembly and we were honored, certainly to have Kerry part of one day of our assembly. But the second day, again, we had a process on that synodal listening and gathering and conversation and I'm recognizing that people hunger for that.
It's a different approach to community, to articulating a vision, of listening to one another and truly encountering another and how we support each other on that journey. So I often say that one of the unique things about Catholic ministry is community and community is, you know, integral to our faith. And so how does that get lived out in the work that we do, whether it be Catholic Charities, you know, education, parish, health care, that sense of community is integral to our ability to fulfill our mission.
KAR
You have been a leader in so many of the most consequential and important apostolates and ministries of the Catholic Church in the US. I think our listeners would be fascinated to learn a little bit of the history of Catholic health ministry in this country. We have spent this year celebrating our 250th anniversary, and yet, Catholic health ministry predates that.
Can you tell us a little bit about the origins?
SMH
I love telling this story because it is so unique in that, 1727 is where we put the pin-point for the genesis of, you know, really, Catholic ministry in this country, not just health care. The French Ursulines came from France to what is now New Orleans, and they came to attend to the needs of the French settlers who had come over during that period of time. And when we think about the work that they did, it was the care of the person and what we now call whole-person care. And so they looked at their social needs, their educational needs, their spiritual needs, their health needs — and health care evolves out of that. I think a lot of ministries really got its foundation there. And, certainly, health care continued to evolve in response to needs where sisters were invited by bishops to come to mission territories to care for people who were in need, not just of physical but also spiritual care, which I think is distinctive of Catholic health care.
You know, we evolved through civil wars, epidemics, you know, a lot of discrimination against Catholics and continue to this day, where we see Catholic health care, the largest provider of not-for-profit health care in this country. And that's pretty remarkable, the footprint we currently have, and so I often say, you know, right now the buzzword about what we do is around social determinants of health.
And I often say that that's in our DNA. That's what those sisters did in 1727. They were addressing the whole person. And so, our origins really have that as foundational to, you know, how we provide care in our communities. And I would also say, one of the unique things about Catholic health care, we often talk about being ministries of the Church and, you know, to step back and say, what does that mean to be a ministry?
How does that distinguish us from a service? And, you know, I'm — I have an MSW, and was a social worker. As someone says, once a social worker, always a social worker, and I believe that. But I remember, there was a difference between providing a service and, and being involved in a ministry, and that for us, that we are impelled by our faith to respond to a person in need.
There's that faith dimension of ministry that is not there with service. Service, we're being kind. We're doing an act of charity for another individual. But for those of us who were involved in ministry and ministry of the Church, we're there because this is what we believe. This is what we believe about people, about our God, how our God is present in that moment.
And we're impelled to do it because of our faith. And that's why I think there's such, I don't know, an attraction to Catholic ministry because it helps people make that alignment. We just had a hire here in June, and I was doing the interview — a higher level position — and the person said, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for me because I'm able to work at a place where my faith aligns with what I'm doing.
And, you know, how — what better way of, you know, responding to our vocation and our calling life than having the opportunity to do that?
KS
Sister Mary, every person just wrote down that line, and they're going to use it in an interview. It’s wonderful.
SMH
Good.
KS
It's wonderful if it's true, of course.
But, when someone walks into a Catholic health care facility, what is the distinctive experience that they might expect to have that separates it from another facility? How is Catholic Health Association hoping to support Catholic ministers in that work?
SMH
I think, I will speak to what we aspire to.
I'm not naive to believe that it happens day in and day out, right? We're all human. And but I think the aspiration and the distinction that you will find is that, bottom line, it's about relationship. And you know, so, you know, how we treat another, you know, how we welcome someone into the facility. How do we assist someone in wayfinding, you know, in calming them?
We recognize the fact that people seek our care at the most vulnerable time of their life. And so we walk with them and it is a privilege and an honor. So, the work we do at CHC and, many of our formation programs, we bring that to light and we help people recognize what a privileged role they have in caring for another and how they can prepare themselves to do this.
And, you know, health care, it has advanced through the years tremendously, right? We know that. And it will continue to see more and more advancements. But, it's not perfect, and people are going to get ill, people are going to become, you know, sick and die. And we can't, you know, stop that from happening. But how do we journey with people in that process of life, death, you know, resurrection — again, back to our faith.
I was a social worker on a traumatic brain injury unit at a level one trauma center. And I remember working with families who — someone's son, daughter, husband — was impacted for life because of this traumatic injury and would never be the same. How do we walk with people and help them find hope in life and that experience?
And I think that's what we do day in and day out in Catholic health care. We may not be able to cure the person, but we will journey with them and support them in the experience of their own diminishment. You know, right now we're we're seeing in our country this growth of physician-assisted suicide in certain states and the recognition that, you know, suicide is not the answer.
Good care is the answer. How do we provide good care for people during their time of transitioning? And I just, I think it goes back to who we say we are and the faith that we believe, that we believe in life everlasting.
KAR
I see so many, so much that is resonant with the Catholic Charities as a ministry approach as well.
And there's a clue to it in your example of working with people experiencing head trauma. You talked about ministering to the family as well, not just the patient. And that speaks to the sense of ministry, that whatever the presenting need is — in our case, it's often basic hunger — that simply becomes an invitation to a deeper relationship, to behold the person and ask the questions, why — why is this person hungry? Who does this person belong to? What more does this person need so that we can work collectively to lift him or her and their whole family out of poverty? When it comes to healing an individual, you are also so attentive to all of those who are affected by the loved one who is ill or injured. Really beautiful.
I was going to comment on, also, how inspired I was to be a guest at CHA's assembly in Saint Louis earlier this year and meet so many kindred spirits. As soon as I walked in, I knew these are my people, even though they were all in health care specifically.
But we really shared so much in common. And I'm also intrigued about the practical, intentional examples, especially under your leadership, of intersecting Catholic Health Care and Catholic Charities and how much good we can do together when we are synodal, when we listen, when we pray together, when we are strategic together.
SMH
I think some of those practical examples that come to mind, the Healthy Housing Initiative, where Catholic Charities and Catholic health care have come together in five cities across the country to look at chronic homelessness and what we can do to provide housing and the impact it has on people's lives, our ability to, you know, see the decrease of utilization of emergency room and hospital utilization because now they're looking at addressing, you know, that safety in good housing. So a lot of examples about that. And I think the recognition that we're starting to have is that we don't provide these ministries in silos, that we are mutually impacting and interdependent.
And, you know, you have to address the person within the community. And, I was thinking, as you were speaking earlier, Kerry, the — I was blessed to do my clinical experience in Trinidad and I worked with, priest, you know, a “Trinny,” who had started this program, Serve All, and he was just amazing in the work he did in the West Indies and how this program spread.
But he said, you know, we assume because we have a particular college degree, we come from a particular location, that we know more than the people we’re serving. We have to acknowledge that poor people — and he said this — poor people aren't stupid. They know what they need. We just have to ask them. And they just don't have, you know, the abilities to elevate themselves out of poverty or their situation.
So, to go back to that notion of relationship is core, how do we develop that relationship with those we serve and engage with them and draw them in to the experience? And that's what Jesus did over and over in the Gospels, when we see the healing of the leper, you know, it's not just healing physical, it's healing in terms of bringing that person back into the community.
And that's what we have to understand that Catholic health care does not do that alone. It does it with Catholic social services, with Catholic education. We, you know — and with others — I want to say, I don't want to get so parochial that it's only with the Catholic, Catholic experience. We've recognized the fact that we're, you know, much broader than that, and we need to be.
We have areas where we're serving, we have maybe 2 to 3 percent Catholic. And so it's going to be a unique situation to be able to provide the care that's necessary in the tradition. So I appreciate your comments on that about the collaboration within the church and our ministries.
KS
You know, when I think about the work that people in the Catholic health field — and, as well as Catholic Charities, Catholic social services and Catholic education — need to do, what's required of them, the people providing the ministry, it can take a tremendous toll because it's demanding. Sometimes it feels relentless. Sometimes it feels underfunded. We don't have enough people to get the job done. But we believe, as you said, we believe in it so deeply. It comes from the core of who we are.
It's our deep calling. So we continue forward. And I'm wondering what you have seen in terms of care for the ministers in the space that you're in that's working, that others might be able to learn from?
SMH
I think we saw that throughout the U.S. during Covid, and we saw it particularly in health care, where frontline workers were feeling the stress, the fatigue, the loss, and, you know, post-traumatic stress was prevalent at that time.
And our colleagues here at CHA started working with the colleagues within the ministry to redirect pastoral care services to the ministers, the physicians, the nurses, the frontline staff, in order to address their needs. And, you know, it's — kind of liken it to when you get on a plane and they say, if you have a child with you, put on your mask before you put on your child's mask. You got to take care of the, you know, the caregiver before you can take care of the person who needs care.
So that has continued since Covid. We've done a tremendous amount of work, what we call wellbeing and, how do we look at, particularly with clinical positions, but I would also say in executive positions, you know, we see people who are highly stressed because of the, you know, environmental impacts, what's happening right now, worried about cuts in Medicaid, what's it going to do to the viability of the ministry they're going to be losing, you know, billions.
And how do you manage that? So we've, learned a lot, and I think we often do during times of crisis. And, we've incorporated more aspects of the ministry to address those needs. And I think it's become core to the work we do. I don't think it's going to fade away. It's here. And we recognize that we have to provide attention to well-being for all our employees.
KS
I think that is music to many people's ears, to just to be reminded that we need to take care of ourselves. And we need as leaders to make it a priority to take care of our employees and not just always ask, but also to give them space to be cared for. So we started this conversation, with you at 22 years old, running a school.
SMH
Time flies, doesn’t it.
KS
It really does. If a 22 year old young person came to you today and said they wanted a life that looks like yours and that doesn't mean sitting at the helm of CHA, but a life deeply rooted in their culture and in the vibrancy that you're expressing and the opportunity for the service that you're expressing.
What would you tell them to do first?
SMH
Oh, God, that's a great question. It's almost like, you know, direction to your younger self. What would I have done differently, also? I think the first thing I would say to them is to keep these types of conversations going. So they've reached out to me to have the conversation.
That's the first step. And there's an awareness there. And I think, quite honestly, Kim, I get phone calls a lot where people want to just talk to me on a regular basis. Sometimes my staff say, I think you're more of a counselor than you are the CEO. And that's both/and, right? I think it's important that people take the initiative to reach out and seek out people where they admire, they sense a trust with the individual, whatever it may be, to begin to have the conversation.
And I think it helps open up the space within oneself to start to see things differently and different perspectives. And that's where it begins — again, back to relationship. And I think that's an important thing. So first, the initiation, and the trust within oneself to seek out something different and try it. And you know, at 22, you know, I wasn't prepared to be a principal, but I thought, you know what? I'll risk it — if I fail, I fail. Right? And I didn't, thank God. So I think we have to challenge ourselves and get out of our comfort zones a little bit also. People who are unhappy in their work and in their lives, I think, lack the ability to initiate something different and the courage to try something different.
And, because all it will do is either open a door or it's going to be affirmation: I don't want to go that direction. So one of the two, and so I think it starts very simply like that.
KAR
The role of personal invitation in the spiritual life seems to really matter too. You had someone when you were 22 who invited you — didn't quite invite you, demanded — that you take this position.
But that has been true in my own life. Thank God for those who see something in us, as inchoate as it might be, and entrust us into a meaningful way of living out our vocation.
Sister Mary, the nation and the church are abundantly blessed because you have lived out your vocation all of your life, and you have shown courage in accepting each new leadership position.
You integrate so much every day into what you do. You're really an exemplar of what it means to be a leader who lives out their values and makes a profound difference. We are so blessed to have had you on our podcast, and we always end by asking our guests the same final question: who is one leader whom you have drawn inspiration from and emulated in your own career?
SMH
First let me say, Kerry, I’m touched deeply by your comments, so I appreciate that. And I say to people, I'm at a point in my life where I do not separate — I cannot separate — out my call as a Sister of Mercy to my call in my current role at CHA. They’re one and the same. And that's a gift for me.
When I think about who that person is, I could go back to the founders of the Sisters of Mercy, Catherine McAuley. And, you know, what she did early on, and I would summarize it by saying she broke down barriers. She did things at that time that women and people who were not religious shouldn't be doing.
In fact, a bishop told her, you can't do this unless you're a sister, when she started this ministry. And so there's a whole story there. So she broke down barriers.
And I have to say, in a very personal way, my father died when I was three, and I have two older brothers. Died in a car accident very suddenly.
And my mother raised the three of us, solo. This is like, in the 60s. And when you think about the role of women during that time who were primarily domestics, and she learned early on — she had her parents nearby, and my grandparents were close to us — but she learned early on what she needed to do to be both father and mother to three children.
And so from a very early age, I saw and experienced what women could do and what she did and, and, what I'd like to say in a pretty good job of raising three kids, and what witness she gave to me and many others in that ability. So I would say, Catherine McAuley is, probably my mother is probably the reason I was attracted to the Sisters of Mercy, very similar between Catherine and my mother.
KS
What a great way to end with two great women and spoken by another, incredible mentor, leader and woman in the church. Thank you so much, Sister Mary, for being with us today.
SMH
Thank you both. Tremendous work that you're doing, and I appreciate being a small part of it.